Fire Marshal, Aircraft Rescue Firefighter, and author, Aaron Johnson joins Drew to discuss all things foam, fire protection, and the future. Drew has questions about hydrogen, electric and hybrid aircraft and fire protection, and Aaron has answers. Aaron talks about his most recent book, “Fire Protection For Hangar Design,” and the one he is working on now about leadership in the aircraft rescue and firefighters (ARFF) community.

Drew Slocum: (00:10):

This is episode 31 of the Fire Protection Podcast, powered by Inspect Point. Today my guest is Aaron Johnson. Aaron, uh, is an expert in, uh, aviation fire protection hanger fire protection. He’s currently a fire marshal, uh, at a, uh, manufacturing, an aircraft manufacturing facility in, in Southeast Florida, in West Palm Beach. He’s written, uh, recently come out with a book on aviation fire protection, has continuing to update that as the industry and market progresses, but a lot of expertise in aviation and, and fire protection as a, as a firefighter, as well as, um, you know, some of the fire protection systems. So he sits on NFPA 4 0 9 on the technical committee. He’s also on four 18 for Helipads. So, um, a wealth of knowledge when it, when it comes to kind of aviation, uh, you know, it was really cool to have him on because he has written a book, you know, all on his own.

And, uh, he does know a lot about fire protection and where the future of, of the, the current protection schemes are going. You know, firefighting foam has, you know, been in the market for, for years, but it’s, it’s quickly being transitioned because of environmental and, um, safety concerns, you know, health concerns. So, you know, the manufacturers having to catch up. The hjs are having to catch up. What do we change it out to? Are there different protection schemes out there to replace it? So, uh, it’s an interesting time for, for aviation and just firefighting foam in general. So, um, glad to have Aon. Before we get started, I want to give a quick plug. Um, the Fire Protection Podcast. We’re gonna be doing a first time live broadcast, um, on Riverside fm, as well as our YouTube channel, inspect points, uh, YouTube channel. So we’re gonna be doing a live broadcast at NAED 2021 in Las Vegas and Atlantic City.

Uh, the first broadcast will be at 10:30 AM Eastern on June 3rd. So next Thursday, well, I guess it’s next Thursday we’re recording this, but next Thursday, June 3rd at 10:30 AM we’ll be recording it as well. But, uh, we’re trying out a live broadcast from Na naed. I have, uh, probably about five different guests coming through through at registration from naed. So, uh, it’s gonna be a great show. There’s a lot of people, uh, planned on coming to that event. And, um, yeah, if you can’t make it listening live, so we’ll be there again. Uh, uh, June, uh, third at 10:30 AM Eastern, 7:30 AM Pacific. So onto the podcast, enjoy. So

Drew Slocum: (02:58):

Again, thank Thanks, thanks, Aaron. For, for, for hopping on the podcast, it’s episode 31 of the Fire Protection Podcast. Um, and you know, I, we actually recorded this, uh, uh, we had a great recording about a, I don’t know, 10 days ago or something. And, and, uh, you know, technology, you know,

Aaron Johnson: (03:19):

Well, great. Half recording, right?

Drew Slocum: (03:21):

Yeah, half recording. <laugh>

So frustrated trying to do podcast software, cuz we’re gonna be doing some live streams at, uh, at the, uh, fire Equipment distributor Expo here soon. So, got a, gotta work out the, the kink sometimes. That’s right. So everybody likes that. It’s, it’s raw. Anyway, so, um, but no, appreciate you coming on again. I wanna talk about, uh, fire, uh, hanger fire protection and some of the stuff that’s going on in hangers and then just, uh, foam fire protection. Get into that a little bit, but I guess you wanna just give the audience just a quick, um, you know, few minute intro of yourself, what you do. And, you know, I’ve known you for a few years now, so, uh, yeah. Fire away. All

Aaron Johnson: (04:08):

Right. Yeah, no, my name’s Aaron. I am, uh, I’ve been in the fire service for a little over 15 years now. Um, I currently serve as fire marshal for, uh, aircraft manufacturer in south Florida. So we have, um, in South Florida, we have a big, um, development flight center where we test new products and we build air build, build aircraft, that kind of thing. So I serve as a fire marshal for them. Um, we, we have our own full fire department, so it’s in a, a niche firefighting category known as R for Aircraft Rescue firefighting. Um, so I, I, when I was in Fire Academy, I, there were two things I wanted to do. I wanted to be in fire prevention, and I wanted to be in aircraft rescue. So, um, my first job out of the academy was at, um, this department I work at now.

And, uh, I got to be an aircraft rescue firefighter. While I was doing that, I took all the classes and certifications I needed to get into prevention. So I did that, and I went and worked for municipality for a couple years, and then my chief of this department called me back and said, we, we want you to come back and be our fire marshal and lead our fire prevention program here. So I took that opportunity and did that. So that’s, uh, that’s where I’ve been, I’ve been been there for about 10 years now. Um, so that, that’s my main day job. And then on the side I’ll do, I do some consulting work on the side once in a while and I’ll, I do some writing and, uh, that kind of thing.

Drew Slocum: (05:35):

Oh, that’s cool. So I, I guess, uh, what do I, I know, uh, some of the stuff you’ve written, what, what other kind of, is it just essentially fire code or is it, I know you just came out with a, a book, right?

Aaron Johnson: (05:46):

Yeah, so basically I started writing when I was working for municipality as an inspector, because I would, I would have these questions or codes I couldn’t find or couldn’t figure out what they were. So I thinking, if I have these questions, other people might have ’em too. So I started a blog, it was called the Code It’s still online. I haven’t updated it in a while. But, um, I started that blog and I would write down, you know, write little articles on why I found, how I found. So my writing kind of evolved from that. And then, um, it evolved to today. I, you know, I write books and, uh, magazine articles and that kind of thing. So, um, yeah, my most recent book is on Fire Prote. It’s called Fire Protection for Hanger Design.

Drew Slocum: (06:26):

Cool. Yeah, I know, uh, it’s, it’s that, that whole kind of sector fire protection and hangers, I, you know, it was weird. I talked to a, a contractor today about it. Um, you know, they’re, they’ve done a lot of hangers in, in the past and, uh, made a comment to me. She’s like, uh, you know, if, if, if we can’t have Hay ex foam in there, then why even have any fire protection? And I, it, it, it’s, it’s weird to, to kind of hear that and, you know, I know the aviation side of it doesn’t, they don’t wanna have, they don’t wanna have any more destroyed planes and don’t wanna deal with the environmental issues. So, um, you know, I know you said on N F P A 4 0 9, is that right?

Aaron Johnson: (07:11):

Right. Yeah. I mean, that’s one of the discussions that we always have, right? Is that the insurance company is paying out a lot of damages when there’s no fire. They’re just paying for foam cleanup and repairs from, um, from, from foam damage.

Drew Slocum: (07:28):


Aaron Johnson: (07:28):

So that’s kind of leads into the, on the 4 0 9 committees and within the aviation, that those groups kind of lead into the conversation, well, what are, what are, are are other options or choices or how can we fix this? Right?

Drew Slocum: (07:44):

Yep. Yep. Yeah. And, and I guess what, uh, I, I, I haven’t held up the technical committee of 4 0 9, which is the, the, the hanger fire protection, um, the standard for hanger fire protection or aircraft fire protection. But, um, what, um, what, what kind of people sit on that committee?

Aaron Johnson: (08:04):

So the NFP four nine is the standard for aircraft hangers, and, you know, the, the scope of that document is the protection of the structure, not necessarily aircraft. So it’s primarily concerned with protecting the structure. Um, and that committee is, uh, as you know, n fpa, they try to have a equal categories in all their committees. So there’s special, special experts, which would be like consultants and those kind of things. And there’s users, um, there’s enforcers, which I would fall under the enforcer category. Um, and there’s, uh, industry, there’s manufacturers, installers, um, all those different groups sit in there. So we’re looking at, you know, sprinkler companies, foam companies, consultants, some alarm guys, um, um, government entities and agencies. So one of the big government organizations is the dcma, which is the Defense Contract Management Agency. So they manage any type of government contracts. If you’re building aircraft for the government, they have oversight of that, so they would be an enforcer as well. So, um, when we think of enforcers, it’s a little bit more of the outside of the normal fire marshal h j realm that we think about. Um, but those kind of people sit on that committee.

Drew Slocum: (09:13):

Yeah. It’s, uh, you know, I know, I know people, few people that sit on there. It’s, uh, I know there’s been a lot of meeting lately with what’s going on with foam and, and all that. Um, I guess for, for I, I guess people that don’t understand fire hanger fire protection, um, I guess what, what are the different, what are we trying to protect and, you know, what are the different classifications?

Aaron Johnson: (09:38):

Yeah. So we’re, again, we wanna primarily gonna protect the structure, and we wanna make sure that, and, and we’re, we’re also going for life safety, right? So the o occupants can get out safely, but secondarily, we’re protecting the, the aircraft and the, those investments and those aviation assets. And so, um, NFP 4 0 9 breaks hangers down into, or classified as hangers into four groups. Group one, group two, group three, and group four. And then, uh, those are classified by, um, fire area and, and hangar Door Heights. So groups one and group two are gonna be your largest size hangers. Um, group three are a little bit smaller than your group four or your membrane structures.

Drew Slocum: (10:21):

Right. Interesting. So where, where’s the mem membranes? Mostly military, you said?

Aaron Johnson: (10:26):

Yeah. So most of the time you’ll see, you see there’s a lot of, a lot on, uh, military bases. Um, but you, they’re starting to become a little bit more popular. I actually, um, posted one, I think it’s over in China. They, they’re starting to use it, it’s air supported membrane structure. So

Drew Slocum: (10:44):

Interesting. Wow. So, so the main ones that were, you know, that are being protected by, you know, the foam, the big hix foam systems and all that, those are the class ones, right?

Aaron Johnson: (10:54):

Right. Those are your group one and group two require foam protection. Gotcha,

Drew Slocum: (11:00):

Gotcha. So, you know, if, if anybody has been hiding under a rock lately, uh, fire protection foam is, uh, you know, has been, has been kind of been looked at by environmental, environmental agencies and, and, uh, just the public in general with, um, kind of some of the effects on the environment. And, uh, it, it’s kind of put a little wrinkle in at least, uh, probably the, you know, definitely the aircraft or air, air in hanger, air hanger, uh, heliports and all that. Um, but, uh, you know, with all the, the P P F O S and p o, do you, do you have any, uh, kind of shed any light on that, on, on how long that’s been happening and, and what they’re gonna be doing next?

Aaron Johnson: (11:46):

Yeah, so, you know, I already mentioned that the, the aviation industry, the insurance industry, they’d already, they wanted to do something with foam already, right? Because they’re spending a lot of money on these foam discharges. So we have that’s one cut, that’s the money side of it. But then there’s also now this environmental side, which it’s, which says that foam is harmful to the environment and to the people that handle it, mainly the aircraft rescue firefighters that are putting this into their trucks, as well as, um, people that are gonna putting this into the systems. So, um, the problem is that we, we call it, no, I’m just a firefighter. I’m not an engineer or a scientist or anything like that. So I’m gonna give you the firefighters level of it, right? These harmful chemical are P F O S or pfoa. Um, P F O S is your per flu, per Fluor, tane, sate and PFOS are your per fluor tane acids.

Um, basically we would call it, we refer to our foams as C eight or, or c6. Um, right now we’re using c6, so what we we’re trying to transition to, um, but C eight, the C refers to the carbon chains. And so you can go have all the way up to C 24, right? And the higher those carbon chains, the more of this harmful P F O S and PFOA that’s produced. Um, and that can, can damage the environment or the people. So we’re trying to go from C eight down to c6, which C6 of those shorter carbon chains, and they don’t produce or yield any P F O S or pfoa, right? So that’s what we’re trying to get to. And, um, you know, we’re changing that. We ch for us, we’ve changed out all of our foam RA to the C6 and for the, from a firefighting standpoint, right? We’ve started to put in, not just in our agency, but in other airport rescue fire departments, we’ve seen they’re starting to put in, um, uh, regulations and standard operating procedures on handling this foam, right? How do you, how to address yourself appropriately, make sure you have the right p p e on, um, you know, when I first got into this industry, we would just stick our hands in the foam and show you how harmless it was, and it was no big deal. Um, now we, we don’t do that anymore.

Drew Slocum: (13:45):

Yeah. So, so you’re tra so everything’s going to C6 of where you’re at, right?

Aaron Johnson: (13:50):


Drew Slocum: (13:52):

So that still has a fluorine com compound in it. So I know both ansil and Solberg Perimeter Solutions recently released florine free foam. Uh, do you, have you had any experience with that? I know that I’ve heard the firefighting characteristics are a bit different.

Aaron Johnson: (14:10):

Yeah, no, I haven’t had a lot of experience with the newer, like, newer stuff really that’s coming out. Um, I know that kind of the, seems to me the idea is that C6 is the next step until we find something completely different than foam. So that’s seems to be where things are going if you read between the lines a little bit.

Drew Slocum: (14:29):

So I guess, where do else do you go except foam? I mean, you gotta put it, so that’s one of, you gotta put the fire out, right?

Aaron Johnson: (14:34):

That’s one of the things that we talk about, um, even in 4 0 9, right? They want to get, get away from the foam or maybe just keep foam for the biggest of the, you know, the largest of the largest hangers. So what do we do? So some of those things that were suggested and were, are kind of making their way through the, the committee and through the, this code cycle is a risk assessment or a risk based approach where, uh, a, um, a registered design professional would go into the hangar and assess what’s there, what kind of work they’re doing, what kind of aircraft they’re going to have, um, in there. So some of the alternatives that maybe considered could be, we’ve seen, you know, I’ve read about some water mist systems and some, um, you and I talked about Novec 1230 right? Being used, and there’s some reports from the military on tests they’ve done with Novec 1230.

Um, we’ve also seen other things like a safe spill, which is like a perforated floor, which removes the fuel component, um, of the fire triangle, right? So, um, those are some other alternatives that we’ve seen. And, you know, another thing driving that. So we have the, on one hand we have this foam problem, right? That costs a lot of money. If we have these activations, it’s, um, it’s harmful to the environment, to the people. Um, and then also we also have, outside of that, we also have emerging technology where foam and water isn’t gonna be, isn’t as necessary, right? So current aircraft fuels are carbon based, but we’re gonna be going to a, we’re talking about electric or hydrogen based aircraft Sure. That are powered by electric or hydrogen. So that’s gonna be different as well, right? We don’t really have that flowing fuel fire anymore, which is what drove the requirement for foam in the first place.

Drew Slocum: (16:14):

Well, that, that gets into the whole thing, <laugh>. And, and there’s everybody’s, it’s the other hot topic, uh, no pun intended, but the, um, you know, the electric industry and, and battery lithium ion battery storage and, and just fires. Like, there, there’s no great solution there. So, all right. You introduced, uh, you know, electric, you know, electric, uh, uh, aircraft, and now you got a whole other issue right on your hands, <laugh>. Yeah. So, um, yeah, some of those new technologies are, are, are interesting and obviously the, the, the foam is still probably top of mind for most people. And how is the new flooring free? You know, I know it’s passing some, you know, certain fire tests, but at the end of the day are, is every, is everybody comfortable with it? Are the, the firefighters like yourself, uh, on the frontline comfortable with it? Um, and there’s probably different firefighting procedures with that, right? Because it doesn’t stick as

Aaron Johnson: (17:16):

Stick as well, maybe. I mean, well we, you know, we don’t, we use a triple F type foam. We don’t use the Triple fp. Um, the Triple FP doesn’t have the, we’ll just call it stickiness, right? That a f F has. Um, that, cause when we’re, when we’re spraying foam down, we wanna make a nice thick foam blanket, um, that, that holds and smothers that fire and cools it. So.

Drew Slocum: (17:39):

Gotcha, gotcha. Um, now it’s, it’s, uh, that Novak technology, obviously the safe spill, safe or safe spill and water mist is always water mist is always around kind of working its way into different applications, <laugh>. So, um, one of the things is, and you know, and I talked to a few, uh, contractors on this and just some engineers as well, is, you know, yes you have the suppression agents and different suppression methods, but I think that the alarm and the detection side is almost is important because if, if you’re able to detect, you know, that fire what’s even happening on the ground before a fire even occurs, you’re never gonna have to use one of those suppression systems. So make sure you have a, um, you know, cross zone detection or just the correct detector. Um, you know, I was involved in a, um, a false dump, false, uh, discharge at, uh, one of the airports in the New York City area. And, you know, it ruined a pretty high, high price tag plane, you know, because the detection was tied to the, the building sprinkler system, and they got a spike in pressure and that flow switch set off this, you know, huge high X generator and you got a, you got a huge issue now. Yeah.

Aaron Johnson: (19:04):

So, yeah, exactly. I mean, you know, when a lot of these systems are, you know, they, they have to have a two activations or to, before they even release foam or water into the system. But, you know, a lot of ’em use some type of a flame detector. And so we might call it a false discharge if that flame detector detected a, a welder across the flight field. It wasn’t really a false activation. It did what it was supposed to do, just not where it was supposed to do it at. You know, so that’s part of the things that kind of from a, from a, from a, maybe a man, a facility management standpoint or a fire department standpoint to kind of be aware of, right. And putting those, putting procedures into place, say, Hey, if you’re doing any kind of a, of a hot work, right? Or on the field, we need to know about it. Cause we needed to, we needed to make arrangements for that, whether we, um, do a standby, we close a hangar door, whatever we need to do to prevent that from happening. So that’s, that’s another component that needs to be thought about too when we’re based on the type of hanger that you’re in and the systems that it has.

Drew Slocum: (20:04):

Nice, nice, nice. So, uh, by the way, I just got word from my marketing team. They can hear us live both on YouTube. Oh, perfect. So, hey, six,

Aaron Johnson: (20:13):

This is a successful test then.

Drew Slocum: (20:14):

Oh, man. I, I, I guess well, yeah. Uh, you know, hopefully the audio’s all right. But, uh, uh, this is a lot of fun. Um, so, um, I guess, you know, um, with all, all the stuff going on within, and now, what, uh, N F P A committees do you sit on?

Aaron Johnson: (20:38):

So I sit on several, um, mainly all the, the biggest ones that I really spend most of my time being involved with are all the ones related to aircraft, uh, firefighting, arf, and, uh, AR aviation facilities. So the aviation facilities is committee is 4 0 9, 4 15 and 4 23. And then, um, the ARF ones are moving to, you know, N F P A did this consolidation. We took a lot of the single, single codes and standards and kind of compiled a bunch of them. So, um, a lot of the aircraft rescue firefighting ones are going to NFP four 40 and NFPA four 60. Um, so I’m involved with those. And NFPA four 40 is the guide for, you know, how to, how to be an air aircraft rescue firefighter, what to do. It has some strategies and tactics and things to, to do in there. And so, you know, we talked a little bit about the, you know, emerging technology part of aircraft.

Sure. And so in those codes, in, in four 40, we actually added a, a section and an annex section on, you know, how do we fight these fires? Or how do we prepare our facilities for them from a firefighter standpoint? What do we need to do? What do we need to be aware of on these electric and hydrogen and hybrid technology aircraft? So we added a, an annex that’s working its way through the committee now for the next cycle. And also, uh, NFP four 18, which is the standard for heliports. We’ve, there’s actually been a, if you read the 2021 edition, there’s a reserve section in there for emerging technology, um, that addresses, um, that will address electric and hydrogen aircraft. And we also, um, they added some new definitions. One of it is verti port, which Verti port is what, um, you might have heard of UAM or unmanned Aero mobility or EV to electric vertical takeoff and landing. So they go to verti, they go to Verti ports, not necessarily heliport. So we’re starting to see this, uh, language that’s going to apply to, um, this emerging technology and flight that we have. We’re starting to see come into our codes and standards. And so, uh, it’s kind of exciting.

Drew Slocum: (22:41):

Yeah. It’s, I guess how does, uh, obviously you know how electric, uh, would work, but how does a hydrogen aircraft, uh, is it just combustion of the hydrogen gas, or I guess is it a gas or liquid? It’s

Aaron Johnson: (22:54):

Above. It’s a liquid, but, um, how it all works is above my

Drew Slocum: (22:59):

Pay grain <laugh>, right? Yeah. Hydrogen. It just seems, if, if it’s a liquid, and I mean, that’s got its own, um, but I guess if it’s a liquid, it, it would be, it’d come out as a, a gas, you know, once it hits atmosphere, maybe, I don’t know. <laugh>. That’s wild. Uh, it’s like the Jetsons, like you said a couple weeks ago. Exactly.

Aaron Johnson: (23:21):

We’re getting into the Jetsons era. We each just walk out to our, our, um, unmanned flying car and tell it where we want to go and it goes there.

Drew Slocum: (23:34):

So, uh, I didn’t ask, I didn’t ask you this before, but, um, what is, what is your favorite, I I how many, how many, um, I guess different types of suppression systems have you seen in, in a, in, um, in a hanger and what, what’s your favorite or what, what do you prefer, I

Aaron Johnson: (23:54):

Guess? Yeah, I mean, we, I’ve seen, you know, I’ve seen high X and low X and, um, I mean, those are mainly it. We’ve got water. We have also have, I’ve seen some calf systems where they would use this for like a local application, like on a certain aircraft spot, some compressed air foam systems. Right. Um, I, I have most experience with using, actually using low expansion foam systems. And I’ve seen a lot of those tested. And for right now, for what we have, I, I like that.

Drew Slocum: (24:20):

Have you seen the great nozzle at all? Any, any application there? I know they’re big in the Navy.

Aaron Johnson: (24:24):

No, I haven’t seen, I haven’t seen those in real life. I’ve seen a lot of videos and watched some tests of those, but, um, never really seen those at any of our sites or anything I’ve been to.

Drew Slocum: (24:36):

Yeah, it’s super hyper focused, like, you know, on, on, uh, on all that. Um, so I, I, I was asking before, so with all the changes to, um, just the different suppression, I mean, you just came out with this book now, do, do you have to put all this time to, to go in and edit it or, you know, what’s the plan with that? No,

Aaron Johnson: (24:57):

I actually, I actually, um, wrote a couple chapters on those things. So it’s already included, but as time goes on, we’ll maybe come with a second edition, but I already, I included a, you know, I included some chapters on the risk assessment part, which we talked about, right. What we’re going to and looking at. So I kind of included that in the book. And then I also wrote a chapter on emerging technology and where we’re headed with that,

Drew Slocum: (25:21):

With Jetson. That’s it.

Aaron Johnson: (25:23):


Drew Slocum: (25:23):

The, that’s the

Aaron Johnson: (25:24):

<laugh>. That’s right.

Drew Slocum: (25:28):

Um, well, cool. Um, let’s, uh, you know, if there’s anything else, uh, that you’d like to discuss, what, I guess what you obviously your, your day to day doing, um, uh, doing your fire marshal duties and, and do you have anything you’re writing now that, that you can kind of tease? Or is, I know this probably takes up a lot of

Aaron Johnson: (25:47):

Time, so, yeah, no, so, well, let me, let me address two things. So first is one thing I always take the opportunity to do whenever I get the opportunity you’re giving me the opportunity is I always tell people the most important part of my job and what I do and what we can do in the fire protection industry is always being part of that code and standards process. Um, by the time you’re at the end of that, whether you’re a firefighter putting water in a fire, or you’re, uh, a sprinkler guy installing a sprinkler, or you’re out doing an FP 25 inspection, you’re already at the end of that code you’re at, you’re just doing what somebody else already told you to do. You know? And so that might not work for you for what you’re doing. Um, so I always encourage people to get involved in the codes and standards process, follow it, um, get involved, cuz that’s where you get to write it and you get to determine what, what, what can be done, what’s gonna help the industry at large, and what, what does work for you if some of those things in there don’t work.

So I always encourage people to get involved in, whether that’s sitting on a committee and applying for that, or just, um, going onto the website and a, a proposal, a code change proposal on something that, you know, doesn’t work and know anybody can do that and doesn’t cost any money or anything. Just a little bit of time to input that information. So I always take every opportunity and always wanna preach to get involved in the code and standards process. Um, and then you asked about, if I’m writing anything, I am working on a, a book. It’ll should, it’ll probably be ready, uh, for pre-ordering in the next couple months. It’s on, uh, it’s actually on leadership in the ARF industry. So there’s a lot of fire service books on leadership and on being a chief and how to do that, um, from a municipal standpoint.

But there isn’t really anything that addresses specifically the aircraft rescue and firefighting industry. So, um, I’m working on that book right now, and I, how I did that is I interviewed 40 plus, uh, our chiefs and leaders in the industry, uh, people that have many years of experience and a lot more experience and time than I have. And I, I interviewed them and surveyed them, and we went back and forth with questions and got follow-ups from these people. So I have their, their years of experience are gonna be kind of compiled into this book I’m working on.

Drew Slocum: (27:49):

Oh, that’s awesome. Yeah. That’s awesome. So yeah, you, you got the bug of writing, so you, you gotta continue. That’s

Aaron Johnson: (27:55):

Right. Right’s, right?

Drew Slocum: (27:56):


Aaron Johnson: (27:57):

You think you’re, you always think you’re that, oh, this is the last thing I’m gonna write cause I can’t think of anything else. But then while you’re writing that thing, you’ll think of three other things that need to be written about.

Drew Slocum: (28:05):

Right? Right. Yeah. And your point on the codes and standards, I, I, I, I sat in a presentation with, with James Gallow, who’s the CEO of, of, of Vikings, uh, Viking Group. And, uh, it, it’s very, it, the N F P A process is a little scary right. If you’re not involved in it. So I don’t think that it is, you know, there is a public opportunity there and I think, uh, that might be a nice podcast to do, just to, to describe that and how to get involved, what the process is and do, and really don’t be scared. Right, right. Just just hop right in. Yeah, I mean, the wor the worst they could do at the, the committees is just, you know, deny your request.

Aaron Johnson: (28:45):

Yeah. And, you know, one of the best ways to get involved is to go on the, uh, the N fpa a, they publish a letter, a newsletter every month, and it tells you what codes and standards are up for review and all that kind of thing. And you, anybody can attend as a guest. So that’s one of the things that I did started doing. I just would go as a guest and now you don’t have to. Then we were traveling everywhere to go as a guest, but now we don’t. So you can go, can log in on your, on a Zoom call or web meeting and, and just as a guest and you can view the process and watch what goes on and, and how, and how it happens. Um, and then when we do go back to in-person meetings, that newsletter tells you where those meetings are gonna be held. So maybe there’s not a committee that you’re, that you’re particularly interested in, but it’s in your town. Well, you don’t have to travel and spend the night in a hotel. So you can go there as a guest and check out the process and get a feel for it and get involved and meet people. I mean, that’s the, I always find that to be the best education is meeting the people that sit on these committees cuz a wealth of knowledge.

Drew Slocum: (29:43):

Oh yeah, totally. I wonder, I I, you know, they’ve had such, NFPAs had such success with the, um, you know, just the Zoom or, you know, GoToMeeting or I think they do it on teams mostly, but, um, they’ve had so much success there are, are they gonna go, I, I, I hope they go to a hybrid model, but I think there’s, there’s, they’re getting a lot done within the codes, I feel like, than they were prior to, prior to Covid. Yeah. I think

Aaron Johnson: (30:13):

They’re a lot more involvement. People that couldn’t afford to travel or their department didn’t, couldn’t cover or whatever the issue was. Now it’s, well, you’re just gonna sit in your office on teams meeting and you can contribute now. So I think they are getting more involvement that way, but it’s still nice to see people face to face.

Drew Slocum: (30:32):

Oh yeah, definitely. <laugh>. Yeah. I think, I think the hybrid model will be a good approach. So, um, well, well, great. Thank, thanks for, uh, hopping on this again. Again, Aaron, I, I, I, hopefully this, hopefully this records, I know it is live on YouTube, so at least we got it saved there. Um, uh, I do a little a thing at the end of every podcast and, um, call it the quick response round. And I know you’re, I know you’re a listener, so I know how you know how it works. Yes, sir. Um, and I have a few different questions from last, last,

Aaron Johnson: (31:04):

All right. Let’s hear, let’s

Drew Slocum: (31:06):

Give it, um, what is your favorite code, uh, code committee to be on? I know you’re involved with a bunch of ’em, and hey, no worries, if you don’t wanna tell, you know, give a favorite, but what’s, what’s the most exciting, I guess?

Aaron Johnson: (31:20):

No, I liked, uh, NFT four 40, which is the, the Guide for Aircraft Rescue and Firefighting. Um, so that was fun at, I, I’ve been on that committee for a couple years, but this is our first cycle I was on, on that was just this year. And I also had the opportunity of being, uh, a task group chair. So that was a, a new experience and exciting to do. But I like the people on that committee. I like how they work and move smoothly, and, and we ki we were very efficient and quick. And, uh, you know, like I said, that’s, I’m in the aircraft rescue firefighting industry, and that’s our main, our main bible to go to. So it’s, I like being on that committee.

Drew Slocum: (31:58):

No, that’s, that’s good. That’s good. There’s a lot of ’em, there’s so many committees out there. There is obviously, you know, there’s preferences too. So, um, I know you live on the, uh, you know, down in Florida. Um, what, what are your thoughts on everybody moving there?

Aaron Johnson: (32:16):


Drew Slocum: (32:17):


Aaron Johnson: (32:18):

So I love Florida. I never wanna leave. Um, I don’t wanna get political, but I don’t mind, people live here, but they need to keep their politics where they came from. Cause they’re coming here for reason. Right. Right.

Drew Slocum: (32:29):

That’s it. Right, right, right.

Aaron Johnson: (32:31):

I know. No, I love it here. It was funny because I was reading a, an article just, uh, a few weeks ago about it was talking about how so many people from up north came down and then the article said, now they all wanna go back. And they, you know, they were complaining about all the things I love. They said, it’s too hot, <laugh>, it’s too much fun. Right? I said, oh, I love it. That’s why I live here. But you do have to get used to the fact that, you know, they mentioned there’s, there’s lots of bugs and Yeah, everything in Florida is trying to kill you. The heat, the bugs, the snakes, all that stuff, the gators. But it’s all right.

Drew Slocum: (33:01):

Yeah. It’s, uh, and, and it’s funny, everybody moved down there in, in the nice weather. Yeah. <laugh> last fall and, and now it’s, and it’s now the heat’s starting to kick up and, um, uh, yeah. It’s kind of funny. Every, you know, I, I’ve think I’ve talked to three different people this week are moving to

Aaron Johnson: (33:19):

Florida. Yeah. So, well, and the article said too, people wanna move back because, you know, they don’t have the, you don’t have Broadway and all those kind of things here, but there’s still stuff to do. But that’s what I like about it. I like the little mom and pop the eat and the little, our little main streets we have around and all those kind of things, so.

Drew Slocum: (33:36):

Oh, that’s great. That’s great. Well, we’ll, we’ll end on that. Um, I guess where, where can everybody find you? Where can they find the book? I’ll give you a little plug

Aaron Johnson: (33:45):

Here. Yeah, so, uh, it’s, you can go to aaron Um, I’m also on, I’m most active on LinkedIn to share stuff, read stuff, see what’s going on there. And if, uh, and, and yeah, aaron and, uh, LinkedIn.

Drew Slocum: (34:01):

Cool. Cool. Cool. Yeah, I’ll put it, I’ll put everything in the podcast notes and, uh, I hope everything it records and we’ll get it out there. I’m gonna stop recording in a second. But again, thanks for all the listeners and, um, yeah, we’ll, we’ll see you at live at Nafe here in about a month, uh, June 3rd, I believe. We’re doing a live one. So yeah, again, thanks again, Aaron.

Aaron Johnson: (34:26):

All right, thanks Drew. I appreciate it. Keep up the good work.

Drew Slocum: (34:31):

Thanks again for Aaron Johnson joining in today’s episode 31 podcast talking about aviation and hanger fire protection. Uh, really cool to, to learn about what’s happening on, on those different N F P A committees with, uh, what’s happening in the firefighting foam world as well. So, uh, appreciate Aaron coming on. Please, please buy his book. Please follow on him all on all the, uh, LinkedIn and all his channels as well. Uh, we’ll put it in the podcast notes and, uh, yeah, please, uh, make sure to tune in live on, uh, June 3rd at the NAFE event. Um, there’ll be some notes and, uh, the link will be in the, in the notes for this podcast. So, um, again, thanks for all the listeners and, uh, we’ll see you soon.